Provider Burnout: A Crisis in Healthcare

Healthcare provider burnout has become an epidemic affecting practitioners across all career stages. What was once considered a late-career phenomenon now strikes even new graduates just entering the field. Why is this happening, and what can we do about it?

Trauma therapist Melissa joins us to unpack this critical issue from her unique perspective as both a former ER mental health provider and now a therapist who treats healthcare workers. She reveals how the collective weight of patient trauma, workplace tension, and societal polarization creates an unsustainable environment for those dedicated to helping others.

"We're all trying to keep the balloons in the air and no one really knows how," Melissa explains, capturing the overwhelming nature of modern healthcare practice. The conversation explores how fear manifests throughout healthcare—fear of instability, inadequate resources, and increasingly challenging patient interactions. Rather than building sustainable careers spanning decades, many providers now cycle through positions every few years, perpetuating nationwide shortages while never addressing burnout's root causes.

Perhaps most revealing is the discussion of how healthcare workers internalize trauma. "When somebody puts their trauma on us, we pull that in, we carry that," Melissa observes. Without proper release mechanisms, providers normalize extraordinary stressors as "just another Tuesday," while the emotional burden accumulates beneath the surface.

The episode concludes with practical resources for finding affordable mental health support and challenging misconceptions about therapy. Modern trauma approaches like EMDR don't require reliving difficult experiences to heal from them—a crucial insight for healthcare workers hesitant to seek help. Remember: self-care isn't selfish; it's essential for providing quality care to others.

Take time for yourself and discover how mental health support can transform your healthcare career from unsustainable to fulfilling.

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Chapters

• 0:16 Introduction to Healthcare Provider Burnout
• 4:11 Melissa's Trauma Therapy Practice
• 11:04 Fear as the Root of Provider Burnout
• 16:10 The Unsustainable Healthcare Environment
• 19:06 Carrying Trauma as Healthcare Providers
• 26:04 Breaking Therapy Misconceptions
• 31:35 Mental Health Resources and Final Thoughts

Transcript

Kelli White: 0:16

All right, welcome back everybody. This is another episode of Tattoos and Telehealth and today we are going to chit chat a little bit about something that has been kind of near and dear to my heart, especially just because it affected me personally. But before we get started I just want to say because our lawyers make us do this that this is not medical advice by any means and that this video and anything we discuss here does not constitute a patient provider relationship. But this morning I want to introduce a dear friend of mine who I met professionally and then became friends with, and that is Melissa, and she has her own telemedicine slash, in-person kind of hybrid counseling therapy type.

Kelli White: 1:00

I'm going to let her get into that a little bit more, but we are going to chat about the very awful, very real situation of provider burnout, especially when it comes to nurses, healthcare providers, and why that looks so aggressive I guess would be the best way to say right now Whereas you know that was something, nicole, I think that in our generation that we saw nurses, you know, in their forties, fifties, getting ready for retirement, but I mean now, and I think Melissa would agree, she was even seeing brand new nurses and healthcare providers burning out very quickly. So, Melissa, what do you feel like is something that you're seeing as like a common theme with health care providers?

Melissa: 1:51

Well, it's interesting because I, you know, prior to private practice, I was working in ERs and psychiatry or our psych ER and then the regular ER because we would kind of consult on those cases our psych ER and then the regular ER because we would kind of consult on those cases.

Melissa: 2:10

And I think that's where you know it was, during COVID, like right on the cusp of COVID into whatever we're in right now, and I think that so what was happening in that provider situation was a lot of.

Melissa: 2:23

So there were a lot of nurses that were travel nurses and stuff happening in the ER. So a lot of the older nurses who had been there for a long time and had that tenure were leaving because they were working with a lot of people who were, you know, just coming in and out and the homeless population just kind of blew up at that time and the resources aren't there, and so when you kind of put all of that stuff together, what I was seeing was a lot of we need more resources, we need more tools and we don't have them, and so in that, and that was just in that role, right, and then I move into private practice, so now I'm seeing providers in therapy, so I have all kinds of different clients from every walk of life, but I do see a lot of providers a lot of other therapists, a lot of nurses, doctors, professors, and what's interesting is, I think we're just all trying to keep the balloons in the air and no one really knows how to.

Kelli White: 3:28

Tell us a little about your practice, like what is, what is your practice? What do you do?

Melissa: 3:33

So at this point right now. So I have, like you said, a hybrid, but I'm about to move into fully virtual at the end of the year. It just makes more sense at this point and a lot of people are wanting it. I do have a lot of clients who really appreciate that in person, but there's just so many people who are wanting virtual as well, so it's tough. It's a tough decision, but so my practice is I offer trauma therapy.

Melissa: 3:58

So I do a lot of the trauma modalities with people. That's kind of my niche and has been for a really long time, and I've always worked with a very acute population. That's just always what I've done as well, and so I really love that. I love working with people who are really kind of rough around the edges. I work with psychedelics. I did I'm probably going to move out of that a little bit, as you know, as shifting more into just really focusing on some of these things like EMDR, accelerated resolution therapy, those types of things. So we'll see where that road goes, but done a lot with that.

Melissa: 4:36

And yeah, I think at this point most of the people I'm seeing are just it's a lot of the same story over and over and over. Right, we have our trauma from, or adversity or things that we've experienced in our life. But now it's like last week. Right Was hard for everybody. It doesn't matter where you stand on the political spectrum everyone's rooted in fear of some sort right? So it's just we're all feeling the heaviness of the fears of you know these things based on our values, what we're seeing, the all of the information coming at us. Do I have the tools to manage that? I don't know. Right, I have people working in universities who feel like you know that politics can shift that, or who's in office can shift their job and like what that's going to look like long term. Or, you know, it's like everybody has feels like so much is riding on everything that's going on. So it's just fear, I think. I think, if you just break it all down, everyone's in fear.

Nicole Baldwin: 5:41

I think a lot of reactions, just in general with the human population is driven by fear, even if it's even if it comes out as anger, comes out as anxiety or or or depression. I think a lot, of, a lot of it just boils down to fear because there's so much of the unknown, like you said, not just this week, but just in general. You know, especially with COVID, you know with just it's just the way things are going. I know it was hard for Kelli and I as well to go virtual Um, but the need is so much there. So do you provide care to patients in Texas?

Melissa: 6:11

Yeah, I may. So we are planning to move out of state in a few years and we're looking at Arkansas and I'll probably get licensed in Arkansas. However, I think we're about to have a pact you know similar, I don't know. Do you guys have like a pact thing where you can operate in other states?

Kelli White: 6:28

So not as nurse practitioners we have to apply individually. As nurse practitioners, our RN license is compact to several other states, but as nurse practitioners we have to apply individually, so that's kind of awesome. Right now they haven't passed any legislation to make that compact, which I feel like that's coming. I don't know that it'll happen during our working generation. I think that states need that money still, and so I think that that's something that legislation may not catch up with while we're still practicing, but I think it probably will.

Melissa: 7:00

Okay, yeah, so my license is as a clinical social worker, so as therapists. There are a few different routes. You get that going for us, which it's looking like maybe within the next couple of years, and so I think right now there's like 13 states on it and so states can kind of join as they go. So I don't know how many will be on that, but then we should be able to operate within all of those. It's kind of interesting because one of the billing companies I use they will based upon, so like, for instance, I can see people in Massachusetts for this one insurance because they lack providers. So I think little stuff like that is happening as well. You know, people are starting to get creative in these like moments of like okay, we have no resources, how can we like work within this framework to make things?

Nicole Baldwin: 8:04

happen. Same during COVID we could work across across 99% of the States as a nurse practitioner during this emergency order. Now our RN license, which you have to have an RN to have an NP, so why we have to keep both licenses, I don't know. But our RN license is like that there's States that have joined it and there's some that haven't, but most States have joined it and so you only have to have one. You have to have like a compact. So it's very, very similar to that where States can kind of join and every year or two more join.

Nicole Baldwin: 8:35

So I'm glad to see that because definitely in your expertise there is such a demand, there is such a demand for your type of service counseling, the therapy, the just all of it, the social work in general. So I'm really glad to hear that For sure. Yeah.

Melissa: 8:53

Yeah, it's interesting because, you know, we often talk about, like, the negatives of COVID and a lot of negative things would happen, and we're still feeling that, but a lot of really innovative things happen to you. I mean, the fact that we're sitting here right now is an innovation that who knows would have happened if, like you know, covid didn't happen, even though we were probably moving in this direction. It was like no, we got to do it today.

Melissa: 9:17

And so now it's just the norm, right. Like when this first started I was so uncomfortable being on video with. I was like, oh, this is so impersonal, like it just especially with therapy. I was like, oh, I just don't think I could ever do that. But you start to get used to it and it's like wait a second, you can have as profound of sessions virtually and, as a matter of fact, this person can sit in the comfort of their home, you know, with their dog and their blanket, and you have a good session, you know, as opposed to them driving 30 minutes to the office and stuff. So you know, it's not as bad as I originally thought. So it's been really interesting actually.

Kelli White: 9:57

Yeah for sure. Um, so what do you feel like? I know we kind of got off track a little bit, but what do you feel like has become such a drive for the rate of burnout that we're seeing now, or do you feel like that is still a big deal?

Melissa: 10:17

Burnout. It's funny because I always have to try and zoom out, because if you ask me, everybody's burned out, right, but that's everybody I see, because I spend all of my days with people who come to me and put all of their stuff that doesn't feel great down on the table, right. So if you ask me, everybody's depressed and everybody's burned out, and everybody has trauma, but that's my whole world.

Melissa: 10:45

So it's hard. I have to like really zoom out and I'm like, okay, not everybody feels this way, right, um, but you know, when you, when you kind of live in that bubble, um, you, you just that's, you think that that's what's going on everywhere. But, um, I do, I do see it a lot. I feel like, and I kept saying this so we just recently went to the Midwest and everyone was so kind. We were in Ohio, it was, I don't know. It was so weird. Everywhere we went, even just like gas station, everyone was just so genuinely kind. And maybe it was a fluke, I don't know, but I was thinking.

Melissa: 11:20

So I live in the DFW area and I was like, you know, it just seems so aggressive here now. You know it didn't used to be like this and I feel like that's part of it is like because the heaviness of what's going on everywhere, you add, like the cost of living goes up, you can't afford groceries, you have to work multiple jobs. I have multiple clients who have to live with multiple roommates in order just to live as in their thirties. You know, like people aren't, they don't feel like they have the stability anymore and, I think, added on top of that, there's a lot more aggressive behavior, even if you're not seeing it out and about, because you're online all the time. Everyone's aggressive online, so you start to be in that bubble of like everyone's aggressive.

Melissa: 12:14

I hate my job. I have to work three of them, I have to live with these people that. I wish I kind of had my own space. I can't. I have no one that I can really talk to because now my family's polarized because we have different political views. You know, it's like there's nowhere to turn. That feels safe or good anymore, I think, and a lot even so, there's still a lot of people who aren't getting out into nature anymore and things like that. That was one thing I saw during COVID, which was really awesome too.

Nicole Baldwin: 12:41

Anytime, I went on the trail there were like hundreds of people and I was like, yes, bikes were on a shortage. Bikes were on a shortage, like it was great.

Melissa: 12:51

Yeah, it was awesome to see and I I was hoping it would sustain, but it it hasn't. But you know, anyway, I just think that I think it's that immense pressure. It's like a pressure cooker and people feel like they can't get out of it. And you can, you just have to work for it a little bit. But I think it's just the.

Melissa: 13:10

You know, it's that um, I don't know if you've ever had a job where you like go in and you're like gung-ho, really excited, but then you feel the vibe everybody's burned out and it just sucks you right in and I think that's kind of where a lot of people are.

Kelli White: 13:26

So do you think that that has contributed to the younger population of providers coming out of school rapidly burning out, like faster than what we would expect, because they're responding to the environment that they're in?

Melissa: 13:44

Yes, so it's weird because I so I'm on a lot of therapist pages, like Facebook pages, because I like to see what other people are talking about. You're kind of on an island as a therapist, because even if you work in a group practice and you probably experience this as well I mean you probably work closer with providers when you're in person, but we don't work with somebody else. You know we're in sessions all day and you may have two minutes where you're going to the bathroom, so you, there's not a lot of time where you're talking and getting to. You know, just do that chit chat, Right? So I like get on these pages and it is actually incredible the amount of burnout that therapists talk about and I think sometimes it's working for like agencies, like community mental health, where you have way too many patients at a time and you're making no money and that it's just hard because you so in a therapy session, you're in it for an hour, right, you are, 100% of your soul is online, right, Like I am holding that space and every word that this person is saying I am taking in. Right, I am hearing, I am conceptualizing like which, you know, what can we do here? How can we work with this thing. Like you, you, 100% of yourself, is there, right, and you're doing that for, you know, six, seven, eight, 12 hours, right.

Melissa: 15:13

So in community mental health, you have people coming in who are homeless, you know, have severe drug issues, have no family, you have limited resources. You're trying to hold all of that space for all of these people and you're doing it at a grand scale and then they're just putting more cases, more cases, more cases. So I see that that's really hard. You can't sustain that. It's. That is unsustainable. You know there's not enough of me to put into that space, Right. So that's, I think that causes burnout. And then, but in private practice, I think it's weird I'm seeing this so much working with insurance companies, people that burns people out. There's again, I think that's based in fear, fear of these clawbacks of, like you know, like coming after you and telling you you're not doing what you're supposed to be doing, things like that. I think just the heaviness that's brought to the table is hard to maintain long term, the tension of everything, the angst.

Nicole Baldwin: 16:15

just you're constantly on the edge of everything all the time, like you were talking about going into work in a good mood, but you're. You also read the room right and the tension you can cut. You know just everybody's angst.

Nicole Baldwin: 16:30

And it may be individually, everybody has their own story right and everybody has their own things that they're dealing with. So even if you're into a situation where everybody is just in their in their own head, trying to deal with their own life, then trying to take care of other people around them as well, or you could have, you know, everyone you know working on that Maybe, maybe it's a it's a company issue and so everybody's having the same issue, and then that also, can you know, can cause angst just in. I think just there's tension everywhere. Like you said, you go to some places and they're really nice and I can tell you like I see patients nationwide, but my specifically I'm not saying other States are rude, so I'm not, I'm not saying that my Arkansas, north Carolina, south Carolina and Tennessee patients are awesome, like they are always pleasant.

Kelli White: 17:24

Always, always.

Nicole Baldwin: 17:25

That doesn't mean everybody else is rude, I'm not saying that. But if I get somebody and they're like super nice and sweet, and just genuine and just a now.

Nicole Baldwin: 17:36

I see people at their worst. So does Kelli, so do you like? We all see people at their worst, but when people can still not feel well and present to you in just this best pleasant that they can, at that moment Like it's, it's a breath of fresh air. And I always look and I say, oh, I bet you're from Arkansas, Like I always look to see what state they're from, because I a lot of times it's Arkansas, North Carolina, South Carolina, Tennessee.

Melissa: 18:04

Yeah, it's fascinating that there's like a morale, just like in a job right In a state. It's pretty fascinating how that works. Yeah, I think that what is really interesting is we also have our stuff right and we have to put that on the back burner too, and I think that's the other thing people struggle with. You know, we've been doing this for so long I've been in this field for so long. It's very easy for me to like compartmentalize that stuff and like, okay, like my stuff is my stuff, whatever, not a big deal. But I do think that that's hard for people, especially right now because, like you're talking about all that tension, for some people that is not so easy to do.

Melissa: 18:51

And honestly I'm not saying it's a good thing that we can do that. Honestly, I see a lot of providers nurses you know different providers who that's why they're coming to therapy is because they've been putting their own stuff on the back burner for too long Right.

Melissa: 19:04

And pushing that down and all the trauma they've been through like nurses, especially in like ICU type situations. I mean that's very traumatic job. So I'm not saying it's necessarily a good thing. But you think about that dynamic difference, like as a therapist, as working full time. It is a one sided relationship. I am showing up, I am providing that space for all of these people to unload. Now, what if I didn't have a place where I could like be authentically myself and be able to say that, cause, that's not what's happening with my clients, right? That's a one-sided relationship. So they get to unload and unpack and I'm holding all of that.

Melissa: 19:46

If I don't do anything with that, well then I'm gonna burn out right and I don't think that people are doing the self-care that they need to do. You know, we're all guilty of it providers aren't.

Nicole Baldwin: 20:00

I'm not no, I mean, we're just not. We're, we're just not, they're so and I think it just comes with like being healthcare providers in general, just like you know, the three of us, like we didn't come into this field because we want to. You know we're selfish and want to care about you know ourself, we want to put other people first, and so that kind of comes with our territory. But it comes at such a I don't know like, the more you do it, the more you're aware of it, but you know, obviously, the more burnt out you get.

Nicole Baldwin: 20:33

But I think that it is just at such a high scale that right now, health care in the nation there's such a shortage, specifically in mental health, but even in just primary care there's an, in just care in general there's a shortage. Care there's an inch and just care in general there's a shortage. And so you know, I can see X amount of patients, but there's so many more that need help. And at the same time I feel defeated because I can't. Maybe I can only see, I'm just making a random number, but maybe I, maybe I can only see, you know, 15 patients a day and I can't. I want to see 20, but I can't because that affects my quality of care. But then so I feel like, yes, I've helped 15 people, but I still carry with me the others that I weren't, that I couldn't help you know like.

Nicole Baldwin: 21:16

Kelli and I both come from ICU trauma trauma world. We save a lot of lives and that's something we should celebrate.

Kelli White: 21:22

We have saved hundreds, I'm sure, but at the same time, there's those ones that we lose that really take a toll on us.

Nicole Baldwin: 21:31

So, even though we've saved, you know, 100 people, you know that child or that young person or that I mean even the elderly as well. It's a little bit rougher for me to see trauma with children and young and young adults who didn't have that life to live. But you can save as many as as many. You can save a million, but if you have a couple that you struggle with, you're still going to struggle. So it's, I think, that, as per you, carry that.

Melissa: 22:01

We carry that with us forever, you know, and I don't think that people really realize because, you know, and I'm sure you know, me and Kelli have talked about this in the past, but as I don't know how much, but that energy, right, like the energy that comes from every single person we come into contact with, it's not just like, oh, this is the situation that's happening. There's so much more that's happening that we carry with us. This is the situation that's happening. There's so much more that's happening that we carry with us. And we don't realize that when somebody puts their trauma on us, we pull that in, right, we carry that, and we have to do different things to release that from ourselves, right? And I don't think people fully realize, you know, and so instead they're like, okay, I'm going to get off work, I'm going to go party, and then I'm going to get three hours of sleep, and you know, rinse and repeat and it's you're never fully releasing all of everything that you took on that day and doing what's right, cause when we have a traumatic event happen, so exactly what you were just talking about you are trained to deal with those types of situations, but you're still a human being so when you see something like that happen, that is now stored inside of you as an experience that was really difficult. You will carry that with you.

Melissa: 23:23

You know, and that's one of many, many, many of those right. So you know, we just can't just because it's another Tuesday, we joke about this, because I'm a clinical supervisor and so I have supervisees under me and we joke about, you know, the provider joking. You know, when we work in hard situations we always kind of have a dark sense of humor. But the joke is that I mean they all work in very like. One of them works in like the worst, worst, worst, like parts of CPS.

Melissa: 23:52

Another one works in like the psychiatric ICU at another place, and so we'll always say anything interesting happened this week and everybody's like no no, no, and I'm like that's hilarious right, because of course, everything that we do is interesting, but to us it's just another Tuesday, so I'm sure you saw crazy wacky stuff all week, but it's just like we're so used to it, right.

Melissa: 24:15

But that doesn't mean that we don't carry it just because we're like, oh of course that thing just happened. We're just good at putting it in the backpack and carry it along, Exactly, but then it causes its own issues when you don't deal with that stuff. So yeah, and we are in a collective trauma, I think like a collective. You know, we've had generations and generations of a lot of things happening and nobody really knows what to do with it. So I think that's where we're kind of at as a society.

Kelli White: 24:44

I like to tell patients that you know they talking about that. You know, nothing happened this week. It was, you know, just another Tuesday. We, as providers, make that our normal. You know, nothing happened this week. It was, you know, just another Tuesday. We, as providers, make that our normal. You know, just like we say that. You know, like you were saying earlier, I'm going to get, I'm going to go party, have a few drinks, three hours of sleep, rinse and repeat. That's their normal.

Kelli White: 25:04

Well, that doesn't mean that it's okay. You know, like you, this may be your normal and this may be what you do, but that doesn't mean that that's OK. It doesn't mean that it's sustainable, it doesn't mean that it's something that's going to get you through long term and it may last two, three, four years before you're burnt out, as opposed to a 20, 30, 40 year career before you're ready to retire. And I think that's what is so. Concerning to me is that we have this I can't even say generation, because it's affecting multiple generations but we have this group of peoples that are in a bubble that cannot sustain and they have not been able to get out of their bubble to look towards retirement, like they're just flipping over, flipping over, flipping over, going from one to the next, to the next, because what they're doing is not sustainable. So they're doing this for two or three years, flipping over, doing this, for two or three years, flipping over doing this, and they can't seem to find any normalcy. And so we have this country of illness and fatigue and chronic symptoms and chronic diseases because of this snowball effect that began you know who knows how long ago, but was certainly exacerbated by COVID. I think COVID just turned the light on, you know, I think that these things were happening, but when COVID showed up on the scene it was like the lights went on, and so now we can see what's happening and it just became exacerbated by that.

Kelli White: 26:36

And so I think that that's the biggest issue that I see, especially among some of my patients, is that they just can't create a sustainable lifestyle, and you know, I try to let them know that they need to be able to do things like you know Melissa was saying earlier where they have to be able to release and they have to be able to find ways to do this. And as soon as and I don't know if Nicole has noticed this or not, but as soon as you mention, you know, talking to a therapist or going to therapy or going to counseling, or as soon as you mentioned those words, it's like, oh, I don't need to talk to anybody. I'm like, yeah, I go to the gym, I'm good. I'm like, no, that's not. You know what I mean.

Kelli White: 27:13

Like the gym doesn't teach you ways to. You know, do EMDR? The gym doesn't teach you ways to do. You know what I mean. Like those, it's very difficult. So what would you suggest, as a mental health provider, to providers like us? How would you suggest we approach those issues with our patients to get them to understand and be willing to reach out to someone like yourself?

Melissa: 27:43

Man, like isn't that the question, and I just want to say I do not think that therapy is the end all, be all of anything.

Melissa: 27:49

You know, I think people can very much heal in spaces that aren't their therapy right. However, I think where we're at, and the reason why people are seeking out so much therapy now, is because people do not have a a truly judgment free space that's unbiased, where they can unload. It does not matter who you have in your life and you think, oh, I could just tell them anything. We have a filter. We filter with everyone, based upon who we are, who is in front of us, and you know the things we're like. Oh, you know, we may not even realize we're doing it. I think the best thing is like if you have a good therapist.

Melissa: 28:32

I mean, you know, just like in any profession, not everybody is you know, the best, and I hear those stories too, but there are a lot of good therapists out there and it should be a completely unbiased space for you to be able to unload, and that's number one, right, and that's not really therapy, because therapy are these modalities of helping you work through things, but it is. That's the base, right, and that is a beautiful thing to have. Everyone really needs that to be to really be able to explore your authenticity, your own values, as opposed to what's being put on you. You know it's, it's not. I don't know. I think people have a different, different ideas on what therapy is, but it really can't just be a space of exploration, you know, getting to know who you actually are and and what this means for you. What does all of this mean for you? How are you going to navigate it? How do you release these things? You know so, um, I think sometimes people think it's um, a lot of stuff that it really isn't Um, and so how do you convince people to do it? Um, I don't know the answer to that, because the truth is it's, it's a value system, just like anything else.

Melissa: 29:51

I mean, some people are just like we don't do that. That's in my culture. That's not what we do. You know, my parents are, you know, have never been a fan of mental health care. Oh, that's all BS, right. You're going to have those people and then you're going to have the people who are like I go to therapy religiously every week.

Melissa: 30:15

You know, it's like like it's a spectrum and but I do think I just try and make it very. You know, if I'm talking to people about therapy is like taking it off of that, like oh, it's this very formal place where you're like have to talk about everything bad in the world. The cool thing about trauma therapy, emdr, art, even parts work and stuff like that you don't even really have to get into the deep, dark story of what happened to heal from it. And I think that's the other thing. I don't want to talk about, that stuff. Well, you can heal from it without even having to speak the story, right? So you know, I think it's just helping people. See, it's not probably what you think it is.

Nicole Baldwin: 30:50

It's not probably what you think it is. Yeah, that's awesome. So I really like that explanation of it's not really what you think it is and it really can be anything that you want. So, how can? Are you accepting new patients? How can they find you?

Melissa: 31:11

If some of our viewers want to catch you how, where that kind of thing. So, as I said, I'm moving to fully virtual at the end of this year, so I do have. So I currently have a wait list, but things change constantly. You know, people are moving in and out pretty regularly, but so I'm kind of on multiple platforms but there's just places to find resources anyway. So this is kind of helpful anyway. But so there's Alma. Alma is actually. I work with them and they do billing for insurance, but they're also a really good resource to find providers, whether it is therapists or there's a lot of like nurse practitioners and physician assistants who do like psychiatric medications on there that you can find as well. So that's kind of a good platform. Psychology Today is another one where you can find different providers. Same kind of gist it's. I always call it.

Melissa: 32:10

It's like the um dating apps for therapists and you're gonna swipe right if you don't want that therapist, but it really is a list of all these different therapists that they kind of talk about what they do, so I'm on there, and then I have a website and my practice is called feel the rain therapeutics, um, and so that my website is. My info is on there as well. But um, yeah, um, yeah, there's. You know, it's interesting, cause I know there's a ton of therapists out there, but I also hear that it's hard to find a therapist. So I think it, you know.

Melissa: 32:41

Oh, another good resource, though, and I just want to share this because it's like a sliding scale therapist um resource, and this is really good because they have a lot of like people working on their clinical hours. So these would be like licensed master social workers who are working with a supervisor, and there's like LPC associates which are also working on that. So their sessions are $30 a session, which is really accessible, and they have someone supervising them all the time. And then there's also other therapists and they will charge anywhere from 40 to 70 a session, and it's called open path collective, and I use them as a referral source all the time.

Melissa: 33:21

I I have a profile on there but all those spots are full right now. But, um, a lot of therapists will use that to you know, just kind of as a giving back and trying to, you know, just have those spots open for you know that lower amount, and so that's really helpful. So, if y'all want to say that again, it's called Open Path Collective and I think there's just like a. You pay a one-time like fee, I think it's like $50 and that's that makes you a member as a client, and then you just find your therapist and then y'all agree on an amount, um, whether it's like $40 or whatever, a session and um, that one filled up for me very quickly.

Melissa: 34:02

Um, but it's a great resource, because this stuff you know like it's expensive, and so you to be able to find providers for a less amount is good, so yeah, Well, thank you very much for joining us.

Nicole Baldwin: 34:16

We definitely appreciate your time and if you, Kelli and I, you, you guys know you've seen us. You can find me at hamiltontelehealth. com and you can find Kelli.

Kelli White: 34:29

You can find me at Chari Health. com and then, of course, if you need absolutely anything at all, you can reach out to Melissa at Feel the Rain Therapeutics, and even if she cannot get you in, she has given you some amazing resources to find some other providers. But we hope everyone is safe and we hope that you at least take away the fact that self-care is not selfish. Please take time for yourself. Please take time to reach out and find someone who can meet you where you are and help take care of those issues for you all right, guys, see you next time thank you.